You can't reason a manipulative person into caring. Clinical psychologist Dr. George Simon on why "dealing with" one is really about how you show up, and what actually protects you.
Most advice on how to deal with manipulative people assumes you can fix them: explain yourself clearly enough, set the right boundary, and they'll come around. Dr. George Simon spent 45 years learning why all of that fails. A clinical psychologist and the author of In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing With Manipulative People, Simon's central finding is one of the most freeing things a person in a high-conflict relationship can hear: the problem was never that they didn't understand you. As he puts it, "It's not that they're not aware. The problem is they don't care." Once you take that in, dealing with a manipulative person stops being about changing them and starts being about how you can protect yourself.
Simon built his career from an unusual place. "The experts have been my clients," he told us. "They've taught me everything I really needed to know, and they taught me that a lot of things I learned in school probably weren't very accurate." He's written five books, including Character Disturbance, and his work named the crazy-making dynamic most people now call gaslighting long before it had that name. We talked with him about how these personalities actually operate, why standard help so often backfires, and what genuinely works when you can't just walk away, physically or emotionally.
Start here: you are not going to change them
Simon believes some people's core problem is not a wound or unhealed trauma. "It's not just that they've got an unresolved issue," he explains. "The very way they want to see and do things is the problem. Their character is the issue." He describes character disturbance as a spectrum rather than a set of neat boxes, with narcissism as one possible feature among others, like a strong predisposition for aggression. What matters is that your insight doesn't fix it, because they already see clearly. They simply don't want what you want.
This is why so many people burn themselves out. Simon uses a line from his professional training in that partners, and even therapists, "waste incredible time and energy trying to get this character-disturbed person to see what they already see, what they've been told a thousand times." The whole enterprise of making them understand is the trap: their refusal is the point. When you stop trying to win that argument, you get your time and energy back for the things that actually move your life forward.
The charm alarm: seeing it before it's too late
One reason manipulative people are hard to deal with is that they're often easy to like. Many are charming and skilled at what Simon calls impression management. "They know how to talk to people," he says, "but they can be extraordinarily self-centered, prone to using and abusing people, and you don't know it until it's too late."
His antidote is to weigh behavior over words. Being a decent person is hard work: it takes honestly reckoning with your mistakes and admitting them to others. So when someone always has an excuse, when everyone else is always at fault, treat that as information. His phrase for it: the charm alarm should go off. When you notice someone working hard to look good, that's your cue to pay attention to how they've actually behaved over time.
He's equally direct about vetting earlier than most of us do. If a new partner's history is a string of relationships where every former partner was, in their telling, horrible or crazy, that's a red flag, especially if there's never any acknowledgment that they might have contributed. Someone who consistently plays the injured party and never accepts responsibility is showing you their character. Simon is careful not to blame the people who missed it. His point is that these patterns are predictable readable, once you know they're what to look for.
"Position, position, position": what actually drives them
To deal with someone effectively, it helps to understand what they're really after. In real estate it's location, location, location; with a character-disturbed person, "only three things matter: position, position, position.” As long as they're in a position to dominate, control, and call the shots, things can look fine. The trouble starts the moment they have to concede, subordinate their will, or honor someone else's needs.
That drive explains a lot of what protective parents live through after a separation. In Simon's framing there are limited outcomes to any conflict, and the disordered person sorts them by who wins. They prefer "I win, you lose." They refuse to accept "you win, I lose." They'll take a genuine compromise only when there's no other option. And the outcome they cannot tolerate is realizing they might actually lose. That's when the most dangerous mindset appears: "if I'm going down, you're going down with me." It's why, as Simon says, "it's not over till they say it's over," and why people in the most abusive situations sometimes watch an ex spend money they don't have, or drag out a case for years, purely to keep from conceding. The practical takeaway is preparation: expect the drive for position to continue, and have your support systems in place before you need them.
Simon is also realistic about the limits of paper. For someone at the far end of the spectrum who never takes no for an answer, a court order or a restraining order is not a force field. That's not a reason to forgo it, but instead to pair it with a plan, rather than assuming the document does the work on its own. Deadlines, consequences, and enforcement language matter!
Handling them in court and conflict: composure over combat
Family court, Simon notes, can be an ideal stage for someone who likes to fight; the grandstanding is part of the appeal for them. Which is exactly why your best move is to refuse to perform. You're not there for the drama or to put on a show. You're there to tell the truth, ask direct questions, give direct answers, and let your conduct demonstrate who you are.
The strategic payoff is that contrast does the work for you. "If you focus on being the stand-up, forthright person," Simon says, "by contrast the other person will reveal themselves." He's honest that this may not pay off the first time, or the fifth. The justice system isn't always fair, and you have to be prepared to stand up again and again and see it through. But every ounce of energy you spend trying to counter their next move is energy stolen from your own case. "You don't gain anything by playing anybody else's game."
This is the piece our clients find hardest, because they're usually absorbing false allegations while being told to stay calm. Remember that staying composed under that kind of provocation is a skill, not a personality trait, and it's one you can build with support before you ever walk into the room. Helping people carry themselves this way is a lot of what our coaching work is actually for.
Focus on action, not outcome
Simon returns again and again to where the real battle happens, which is inside your own head. Manipulative people "train you to think outward," he says: to stay braced for what they'll do next, what they'll say next, what they might be putting in your child's mind. That outward fixation is a form of the hypervigilance so many people in these relationships carry, and it wears you down.
"Don't be focused on the outcome," Simon says. "Be focused on the action. And if the action you just took isn't quite the right one, pick another." It sounds simple, but it reorganizes everything: instead of asking how you’ll survive what they do, you can instead ask, "What's the next right thing I can do?" One more piece he offered, and Lisa loves this as a former teacher: no learning happens without reinforcement, and no one is going to follow you around patting you on the back. So you have to learn to affirm yourself. Every assertive step in the right direction counts, no matter how seemingly insignificant. Recognize when you've survived a hard thing so you can keep going, because this is a long road, and it’s easier to keep going with people who understand walking beside you.
Co-parenting with a manipulative ex
When you share children with someone like this, walking away isn't an option, and Simon offers two rules. The first is to pick your fights very carefully, because this will demand an enormous amount of time and energy over years. Be firm about the things that really matter, and let the rest go.
The second is about your own perspective. Don't organize your parenting around what your ex is saying or what they might be filling your child's head with, because you can't control any of it and you can't be there for all of it. "You can determine how you relate to that child, what values you model, what character you model, what principles you adhere to," says Simon. Children watch, and they learn. Simon is honest that a skilled impression-manager can bamboozle a kid for a while, but in his experience, over time, kids get it. They do their own growing on their own schedule, and your job is to be the steady example they can eventually recognize.
Why couples counseling and "anger management" can make it worse
Two warnings from Simon cut against conventional advice. The first: couples counseling can be actively harmful when one partner is abusive or character-disturbed. This tracks with what Lisa knows personally, and as a certified domestic-violence advocate, with clients who were traumatized by counselors who didn't recognize what was happening and made it worse.
The second is that standard anger-management is often built on a backwards assumption. The usual model says a person gets upset and then lashes out. But after decades of this work, Simon sees it the other way around for chronically aggressive people: they're in an aggressive mode nearly all the time. He uses the image of the aggressive driver weaving between lanes to beat you to the next light. When do they get angry? "When something gets in their way." The aggression isn't a reaction to a trigger; it's the baseline, and interference is what provokes a flare-up. If you've ever been told your ex just needs help "managing their anger" and watched nothing change, this is likely why. The disposition, not the momentary loss of temper, is the actual issue, and it's a much harder thing to treat, which is exactly why so much therapy aimed at these patterns doesn't help. As Simon puts it, the core problem, the refusal to subordinate one's will to anything larger, is "so frequently never even touched in therapy."
Questions to ask yourself
- Where in your life might you still be spending energy trying to get someone to see something they already understand and simply don't care about?
- Looking back, what did your "charm alarm" notice early that you talked yourself out of?
- How might you start to reward your own small, assertive steps, given that no one else is likely to do it for you?
- With your kids, what values and character do you want to focus on modeling, regardless of what's happening at the other house?
Moving forward
The thread running through everything Simon says is a shift in where you aim your effort. You can't argue a manipulative person into caring, can't out-perform them in a courtroom built for performers, and can't control what they do between hearings or across the co-parenting divide. What you can do is protect your energy, keep your composure, model what you want your kids to learn, and reinforce yourself through a long process that won't reward you otherwise. None of this is fast, or fair. But it puts your effort where it can actually change something, which is the most useful place for it to be.
Resources
Dr. George K. Simon is a clinical psychologist with more than 45 years of practice and the author of five books, including In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing With Manipulative People and Character Disturbance. He shares hundreds of free articles on his blog at DrGeorgeSimon.com.
From Been There Got Out:
- Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances, our guide to the whole marathon.
- Learning to carry yourself the way Simon describes, under pressure, is a lot of what we coach.
Frequently asked questions
Can you change a manipulative person?
Realistically, no, and that reframe is the starting point for dealing with one. Dr. George Simon's core insight after 45 years as a clinical psychologist is that for a character-disturbed person, the problem isn't a lack of understanding you can fix by explaining things more clearly. "It's not that they're not aware," he says. "The problem is they don't care." Their preferred way of relating to the world is the issue, so insight rarely changes it. Trying to make them see your point wastes the time and energy you need for yourself. Dealing with a manipulative person, in Simon's approach, means shifting your effort away from changing them and toward what you can actually control: your composure, your own support, and your next action.
What is character disturbance?
Character disturbance is Dr. George Simon's term for a pattern in which a person's core character, their habitual way of seeing and doing things, is itself the problem, rather than a symptom of an unhealed wound or trauma. He describes it as a spectrum rather than a set of tidy diagnostic boxes, with narcissism as one possible feature alongside others, such as a strong predisposition toward aggression or sensation-seeking. In its extreme form it becomes a character disorder. The concept is useful for anyone in a high-conflict relationship because it moves you away from armchair diagnosis and toward observable behavior: how the person actually treats people, handles responsibility, and responds when they don't get their way.
How can you spot a manipulative person early?
Dr. George Simon's advice is to weigh behavior over words and to vet earlier than feels natural. Many manipulative people are charming and socially skilled, good at what he calls impression management, so likability tells you little. What tells you more is their behavioral history. Watch for someone who always has an excuse, for whom everyone else is always at fault, and who consistently plays the injured party without ever acknowledging their own role. A history in which every past partner was, by their account, crazy or horrible is a red flag. Simon's memorable cue is the "charm alarm": when you notice someone working unusually hard to look good, treat it as a signal to investigate how they've behaved over time, not to let down your guard.
Why won't a manipulative person follow court orders or agreements?
Because, in Dr. George Simon's framing, they're driven by position: being in a spot to dominate, control, and call the shots. As long as they hold that position they may seem fine, but the moment an order requires them to concede or honor someone else's needs, they resist. He describes possible outcomes to any conflict, sorted by who wins: they prefer "I win, you lose," reject "you win, I lose," accept genuine compromise only when forced, and cannot tolerate actually losing. At that edge, the most dangerous mindset appears: "If I'm going down, you're going down with me." It's why Simon says "it's not over till they say it's over," and why a court order, while necessary, is best paired with a backup plan.
How do you handle a manipulative person in court?
By letting your own conduct speak. Dr. George Simon notes that court can be a stage for someone who enjoys the fight, so the counter is composure: "Your behavior will speak volumes about who you really are." Be there to tell the truth, ask direct questions, and give direct answers, not to perform or to win a shouting match. The strategic benefit: "If you focus on being the stand-up, forthright person, by contrast the other person will reveal themselves." Simon is candid that this may not pay off immediately and that the system isn't always fair, so you have to be prepared to stand up repeatedly. Don't burn energy predicting their moves; spend it on your own case.
How do you co-parent with a manipulative ex?
Dr. George Simon offers two rules. First, pick your fights very carefully, because co-parenting with such a person demands enormous time and energy over years; be firm where it truly matters and release the rest. Second, and more important, stop organizing your parenting around monitoring your ex. You can't control what they say to your child or put in their mind, but you can control how you relate to your child, and what values you model. Children watch and learn. Simon acknowledges a skilled impression-manager may sway a child for a while, so patience is essential, but in his experience kids "get it" over time as they do their own growing. Your task is to be the steady example they can eventually recognize.
Why doesn't therapy or couples counseling work with manipulative people?
Two reasons, according to Dr. George Simon. First, the core problem, a refusal to subordinate one's will to anything larger and to do the hard work of growing a conscience, is "so frequently never even touched in therapy," and therapists often waste effort trying to get the person to see what they already see. Second, standard models can be aimed wrong. Anger management, for instance, assumes a person gets upset and then lashes out; but Simon finds chronically aggressive people are in an aggressive mode almost constantly and simply flare up when they meet interference. He also warns that couples counseling can be actively harmful in abusive situations, a caution echoed by domestic-violence advocates, because it can hand a manipulative partner another arena to control.
What is the gaslighting effect?
The gaslighting effect is the crazy-making experience of knowing something is wrong with how a person is treating you while they have you convinced that you're the one with the problem. Dr. George Simon's clients described this dynamic to him decades ago, before the term "gaslighting" was in common use, and he wrote about it in In Sheep's Clothing. It's a hallmark of dealing with a manipulative person: your perception is accurate, but their confidence, charm, and relentless reframing make you doubt it. Naming it is essential. Once you recognize the pattern, you can stop questioning your own sanity and start trusting the evidence in front of you, which is the ground Simon urges people to stand on.
